The motto with one sentece by Robertson, D.V.M.: "We just seldom see the so called inevitable diseases in our patients, when we can get the owners to raise the pets on their natural foods.Ē
We have some beautiful persian kittens, please sroll down to see them individualy and to know who is available. Many are from different littes as more girls of ours went pregnant with a close timing to one to another and kittens grew up in that part of the year when everone was on holiday - because of it we have many now. Two of them (the black girl and the chinchilla boy) are ready to, rest are will be soon (in 1-2 weeks time).
If you are interested in please drop an e-mail to: firstname.lastname@example.org
During this spring/summer we will HELD BACK some kittens but at the end we will choose and to keep just one or two. As we wish to take our time please follow the site as 1-2 very beautiful kittens might will be available later or please ask.
Please be so kind and TAKE TIME TO READ Useful Info part and Important Info part on this page before turning to us, thank you. We keep or cats and kittens on a natural / organic way which works very well, we have no health issues at all. The 'recipe' is very easy: No vaccination at all and proper, mainly raw meat diet (high quality, balanced), plenty of fresh air and moving, possibly no chemicals in environment (our garden is organic) and no chemicals around cats or applied to cats only for 'prevention'. If you turn to us, please don't forget it later that you probably turned to us because of our healthy looking cats and kittens - but this the way how we reached it. If you can't accept to follow this way please don't turn to us. Thank you. Cats and kittens live inside but have access to our net-secured garden: kittens can go out just with our supervision and for short times, mainly for photos: better light conditions for true photos.
* * * * AVAILABLE KITTENS * * * * * * * * Please note: as all of the photos' focused to show a kitten well, on the photos they looks bigger than they are in reality, for true size please look for photos when they are in arms or close to our hands * * * *
VIDEO about them together as playing in the living room (06/10/2019):
* * * * THE COLOURFUL LITTER * * * * can be VISITED starting from 18th of Aug, will be ready to go: 8th Sept, they are full pedigree persian kittens.
Black girl (black with smoke collar), Lucretia - AVAILABLE, 3 months old, ready to go healht-checked, healhty, written certificate
She is a good tempered, easily purring - you just touch her and she starts to purr at once - very playful but doesn't go overboard, gentle, loves attention but not demands it.
VIDEO about her as playing outside (05/10/2019):
* * * * THE YOUNGER, CHINCHILLA LITTER * * * * can be VISITED starting from 30th of Aug, will be ready to go: 20th Sept, they are full pedigree chinchilla and golden-chinchilla persian kittens. These kittens will have pure, vivid green eyes, some of them even the very rare turquoise coloured eyes, for example the golden-chinchilla girl.
Chinchilla persian boy named Fluffy - AVAILABLE health-checked, healthy, written certificate
VIDEO about him as relaxing inside (28/09/2019):
A lovely tempered little one and a real beauty. He is brave. He is clever, he is playful till the lever of not being tired or bored with the toy. He will have turquoise green eyes (very rare). He is very attached to people and full with trust.
VIDEO about him as playing outside (05/10/2019):
A lovely tempered little one and a real beauty. He is brave. He is clever, he is playful till the lever of not being tired or bored with the toy. He will have turquoise green eyes (very rare). He is very attached to people and full with trust.
* * * * THE YOUNGER LITTER WITH GOLDENS AND SILVERSHADEDS * * * * can be VISITED, now health-checked, will be ready to go: 13th of Oct as earliest, they are full pedigree persian kittens in the colour rage of chinchilla-silvershaded, golden chinchilla, golden, all will be green eyed.
VIDEO about them as playing together inside, as living room is dark, for true colours please see the photos made outside. (28/09/2019): Who is who: on the cat tree: foreground: Golden boy 2 - on the background the golden chinchi girl named Jasmine.
On the table: foreground - Golden boy 1, background: golden boy 2, on the leather footstool: Silvershaded boy 2.
Later on the video behind the heating: Silvershaded boy 1 named Spike
He is also a very playful one, gentle and a bit of girlish, never pushy, never goes overboard, has lovely big eyes wich will be pure green later.
Golden boy named Max - AVAILABLE health-checked, healthy, written certificate
VIDEO about him as playing inside (30/09/2019):
A very playful little one, always enjoys it. Easily purring, cute, affectionate. Will have pure vivid green eyes.
* * * * OUR YOUNGEST LITTER WITH SOME RARE COLOURS * * * * the always very playful lot. Their mother tends to sing instead of chatting if we speak to her, singing means not constant meowing but answering. When their mothers chats she uses a very wide range of voices what more like the singing of a little bird than meowing of a cat. We like it a lot as always makes us laugh. Kittens often inherit these kind of things from parents. They now can be VISITED, health-checked and all are healthy, will be ready to go: 20th of Oct, they are full pedigree persian kittens
Blue girl named Chanel - RESERVED health-checked, healthy, written certificate
VIDEO about her as playing (28/09/2019):
Blue-golden boy named Sky - RESERVED to Carla health-checked, healthy, written certificate
VIDEO about him as playing (05/10/2019):
Himalayan / colourpoint boy named Alfie - AVAILABLE health-checked, healthy, written certificate
VIDEO about him as playing (05/10/2019):
Golden-brown tabby boy named Elliot - AVAILABLE health-checked, healthy, written certificate
VIDEO about her as playing (06/10/2019):
Golden-brown tabby little boy named Leon - AVAILABLE health-checked, healthy, written certificate
VIDEO about him as playing (06/10/2019):
Golden-brown tabby boy named Kimba - AVAILABLE health-checked, healthy, written certificate
VIDEO about her as playing (06/10/2019):
GENERAL INFOS: Our cats are PKD free (tested and certified via Langford Genetics, UK, certificates can be seen here.). They are full pedigree persians (ancestros are known to 5 lines or more) and mostly 'import' cats (came here with us from Hungary) or their descendants and were officialy registered mainly in Hungary (some were re-registered with GCCF but as process is costly and bureaucratic we can't see real benefit of it while offering just pets).
Mother and father can be seen, visiting us is welcomed starting from when kittens reach 6-7 weeks old age: on weekdays after 7 pm, on weekends starting from 3 pm, weekends preferred if possible, thank you.
All of our kittens leave us with: - pedigree papers, - written health-check certificate signed by vet, - written detailed diet advice, - toy and starter food, - de-wormed (if required: as we are a bit reluctant to use drugs if no reason we will ask you about it and accordinly will give worm medicine before leaving us or not) - non-registered. They are able to eat alone (and completely familiar with raw diet) and litter-trained when leaving us, also familiar with people and other cats' company. We let them go between the age of 10-12 weeks which way everyone can find a suitable time to pick up chosen kitten even from big distances BUT 10 weeks age is the default, if you wish to make an exception reconcil with us please as soon as you know you would need it but at least a week before the 10 weeks old age of the kitten - thank you. We will ask you to follow our natural diet, it can be a bit demanding (but cheaper than vet's bill) and works very well to keep up good health. We completely gave up on vaccination in 2014 due to a horrific experience when a wrong batch of cat-flu vaccine almost killed a full litter of healthy kittens of ours - and not willing to vaccinate kittens anymore, also sorry but we tend to choose those people as owners who are willing to follow this together with the healthy natural diet.
If you are worried about this part, please take time to see our reviews. As we are contacted many owners of our kittens, I can tell: we never heard a case of cat-flu or other serious infection in connection with our kittens nor we experienced it with our very own cats. It looks to us that they are even healthier without vaccinations AND living on natural, quality diet. You can read after details and "why" under Useful Info part (bottom of page) what we kindly ask you to read for "how-to-keep-a-cat" advices before turning to us. We are sorry, we can't advise you on insurances, we have none because we just don't need it. However one of our customers told us that John Lewis is willing to insure unvaccinated cats.
TEMPERS: some things generally true for all of our kittens: all of them are very playful, have plenty of energy to play, affectionate, usually has not much fear, they are rather clever and curious types.
IMPORTANT: We are not business but hobby breeders.
If you reserve a kitten we keep in touch with you and send photos or a video where they play together appx. once a week about reserved kitten starting from its 6 weeks age till it is ready to go to involve you to the development of your future friend.
We are sorry but due to lot of time-wasters we regularly meet we always ask deposit for our kittens and just deposit secures. Deposits are not refundable. We also keep up the right to step back during the process for the sake of the kitten if we must (very rare but serious cases like client not suitable to be an owner due to serious level of ignorance / negligence, we promised a kitten based on lies of theirs like breeder pretends to buy "just a pet", reseller offers a loving forever home). We are correct, please be correct with us.
pick-up time should be 10 weeks old age / closest weekend especially during SUMMER TIME (June-Sept) and around Christmas time (middle of Dec - middle of Jan), if not suitable to you can be streched till the age of 12 weeks but PLEASE let us know before reserving if 10 weeks age is not suitable eg. because of a holiday. Also it can be streched later if something unexpected would happen with you and needed - of course we will try to our best to help if we can but PLEASE no couple of hours notice to strech time with weeks (1-2 days is ok). We are very sorry and thank you for your kind understanding in advance. Kittens possibly should find their loving homes while they are 10-12 weeks old to adapt their new family and customs there well and smoothly.
- We are also sorry but if you booked a visit without deposit (like when kitten is too young and we haven't asked) please show up
As we feel responsible for our kittens even after they find new homes we are always happy to help with advise to the owners if they wishes. And we are simply grateful if we can have fresh news from time to time about them.
We are dedicated to cats: we don't advise anything which can be harmful to them. (Please see Useful Info part for details.)
If you stick to us, please remember how you can reach us via this web site and contact infos rather than look for a running advert of ours - thank you.
According to our experience people like to buy kittens during winter - on the other hand cats like to give birth during late spring - summer- early automn. Please make plans accordingly to this if you can, thanks.
* * * * * * *
USEFUL INFORMATION ABOUT HOW WE KEEP THEM I kindly ask not just new visitors but already-owners to come (back) sometimes to check new infos what we wish to share for the benefit of cats - thank you.
IMPORTANT UPDATES what can affect cats' health - PLEASE READ EVEN IF YOUR CAT IS NOT FROM US 1. - 2018 summer: According to an owner who has 4 cats from us, a flea-killer looked to be poisonous, all the 4 cats of hers got side effects, one even was very poorly, they reported the case to the manufacturer, cats seem to recovered. The product name was: "BRAVECTO" Another report on BRAVECTO: 'I have read on your website about Bravecto flea killer...it did exactly the same to mine! She had to have steroid injections and fluids to overcome it due to sickness and diarrhoea.'
By the way this sad case is the proof why we never suggest flea/worm treatment as prevention. Even if an adult cat can cope with it, steroids are a way to surpass syndromes but not to cure the illness, a kitten could be killed in this way. Two things: one is that due that many people use it as 'prevention' fleas became more and more resistant while probably due to this pharma makes more and more potent poisons (but they are poisonous to the cats, too for some level). Second that for me - sorry - it is just like as if we start to treat our kids with poison as prevention before going to school or kindergarden due to a fear that another kid there might have bugs. We don't do it do we? but would go for treatmet when an infections stands or maybe for a preventive stuff if the danger is real like a real case around. Nowadays there are very potent poisons for house (spray) and cats (drop on) to kill fleas if they appear (with us happened only twice in 10 yrs), what's the point to risk our cats' health and to burden their liver and kindneys all the time and 'in advance'?
2. 2017 automn: We DON'T use Orijen Cat and Kitten NEW Formula any more due to experienced problems because of heavy metal content (arsenic, lead). We understood that heavy metal content can vary from bach to bach - we don't take this risk. Starting from 2017 automn after long research we switched to Farmina Natural and Delicious grain free type food as strictly just 'background' food but main food is quality, balanced raw meat.
EATING: MOTTO - 'HAVE YOU SEEN A HOUSE CAT OR EVEN A LION IN NATURE EATING RICE?...' Cats are obligate carnivores. We keep our cats and kittens on high qualiy RAW diet which is organic or free range meat. Meat here always means a 'mirrored prey' with skin, bones, organs (heart, liver, stomach) and not just pure meat. Ratio should be somewhere around at: 80% meat, 10% bones, 10% organs. Raw diet healthy just if well balanced. Nowadays we also feed full-preys type diet (frozen day-old chickens) which means your cat will know from the beginning how to handle a small bird which is the closest to their natural need and diet. Mothers teach them what is food and what is not food, because of it our kittens first meal always raw meat. Besides raw meat we use Farmina N&D dry as 'background' food.(We never use brands like R. Canin or Wellbeloved or Iams or Hills and so - in my opinion they are low quality food with fillers and other stuffs like unnecessary oils to cheat the owner as oil will make fur shiny but lack of proper nutrition value remains an issue - they are risk to health and we never try to save on health).
Dry is always in front of them with some fresh water they can eat as much as they want between the two main meals of raw meat, they won't go fat if kept on quailty diet without junk additional stuffs. Just dry won't work but will ruin kidneys with time and never can be as nutritious as raw no matter its meat content. For details this is a very good web site: https://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/your-cats-nutritional-needs-the-basics
If you need more detailed info please use the button below, if not the basic knowledge: bones always have to be raw, liver always has to be organic (Waitrose has organic chicken liver), never give raw pork to your cat (or dog), pls. possibly don't give added vitamins, calcium, taurine to your cats as balance matters, avoid poor quality meat where animal was kept on GM soy / corn (meat accumulate poisons and most of the meat in supermarkets come from places where animals were kept on these), if you give milk give raw and organic and goat's is better than cow's but cats are fine without it, if you give eggs please give organic, don't give salmon - I dare to say don't give fish or just rarely and even then avoid salmon unless organic and fully avoid tuna, don't give food with plant's oil but animal grease. According to our experience no such thing as sensitive stomach but poor / unappropiet diet. Please don't forget: Their real protection is their good working immune system and no. 1 boost of it is the quality proper food.
- Why bones have to be raw? - if you cook, fry, microvawe bones' material change from a bit flexible to glass-like one with sharp edges when chewed and can be dangerous, if you defrost raw meat with bones use cold or luke-warm water to do it.
- Why liver has to be organic? - liver is a nature-given mavelous vitamin and enzyme 'bomb' but other hand it is the organ which responsible to depoisoning and if meat was on a poor diet, hormons, etc its liver accumulate the poisons, too.
- Why raw pork is forbidden? - very rare cases it can have a fatal virus (fatal just for cats and dogs, no harm for us, because of it it is not tested for that virus)
- Why no added vitamins, calcium, taurine or food with added stuffs? - Taurine: they need it but amount is matters, raw meat pieces and organs have enough for the cat, in this way you can't overdose. Give a little organic chicken liver for the vitamins 1-2 times a week, artificial vitamins are not useful for cats but can be harmful. Cats are very different in this way, while we have enzymes and other stuffs to transform necessary vitamins to a digestible / absorbable form, they can't many of vitamin types, this is why they hunt for living prey and need raw meat so demandingly: they 'steal' / use their already transformed vitamins and enzymes gaining them mostly from their prey's organs - this is the trick and this part is VITAL to keep them healthy. Calcium is necessary but it can be fatal if overdosed and if artificial no one can tell how much will be absorbed. Natural source of calcium is raw bones, they feel how much they need and will eat bones according to this or go back to bowl of Orijen.
- Why not just dry? - Cats were 'designed by nature' to gain some of liquids from their raw prey, due to this can't feel thirth very well, if kept just on dry their kidneys will be ill with time. Beside this dry is processed (heated) meat and has lost many enzymes and vitamins due to the process.
- 'I think you made up this GM problem and organic is so expensive' - no I didn't. It is complex topic, core infos: 1. it was engineered to be resistant to insects due to this GM plants make 'built-in' poisons as protection. When we eat these plants they a kind of 'transform' our useful gut bacterias to a way that they start to produce the toxin and poisoning us. 2. their engineering a kind of a failed and they use more and stronger, very harmful pesticides like Roundup which is carcinogen and accumulates in meat, diary, vegetables, grass, it is even in the drinking water nowadays. If your cat ever has an 'unstoppable' running stomac first please start to being suspicious of its food like hidden GM content and water.
- Hormons: Farmed animals are kept on mainly on soy bean in these days (natural high hormon content), modern pesticides decomposes to a hormon-like stuff and can cheat the body. Unwanted hormons messing body's own hormon-system and a very possible cause of sky-rocketing thyroid problems, infertility problems - avoid as much as you can when feeding your cat.
- SALT?! - Yes, they need some salt, pls don't forget that a living prey has salt (blood is pretty salty), whenever I fry chicken I give them some salty skin (just 1-2 bits).
- What's the fuss about cereals? - In nature they can eat as much as prey had it in its stomach, it's around 5 % of the meat / prey at most. 1-2 bites of your quality bread or pizza sometimes won't make big harm.
- Why raw diary / meat / 'everything'? - here's a very interesting experiment about what will happen cats if not kept on raw diet - if you wish to know more please visit: http://www.whale.to/vaccine/james9.html
DRINKING WATER: check water in your area using Google and your post code. In most areas tap water is unhealthy to drink. In our area chlorine level is too high and flouride also part of water. Because of it we use water filter systems, but solution is not perfect. We have an osmosis filter type water purifier - problem that it will remove necessary, useful minerals, too - unhealthy for drinking, we use it just for cooking or mixing it with Evian (as it has quite high mineral content for cats). Our cats drinks this mix or Volvic unmixed (has already lower mineral content). Stay away (please strictly stay away) from fluorinated water. If you live in a non-fluorinated area a Brita waterfilter probably will do.
Effects of fluorinated water for cats:
they will have gum-inflammations with bad smelling breath, due to this chewing will be painful (reluctant to eat bones and pieces of meat while chewing would be important for teeth) and finally they will lost their teeth.
Our body mistakenly tend to built in fluoride instead of calcium into our bones if both present. It's a poison and was used according to this (was used as rat poison in old times)
If you ever would be in the situation to try to raise for example feral kittens on catmilk-powder dissolved in water, never ever try to use fluorinated tap water, it will kill them painfully.
Brita filters won't remove fluoride.
Can be many other poisonsus stuff, chemicals and hormons in tap water (around 300 kinds while water suppliers test for just around 20).
Poisons around your cat you may not aware of:
List is not full - please take time and use google if you are uncertain, but:
when you give a bit to your cat from your food you must know
- artifical sweeteners can be deadly poisons and lot of prepared food was made with them
- chocholate is also poisonous to cats
- several fruits and vegetables
- house and garden plants (for example lilies but usually all kind with onion roots) and several others, too
- Paracetamol and many other medicines you may dropped earlier
- antifreeze liquids
- bleach / washing liquids
- bug killers (as mentioned above they decompost to hormon-like stuff and cheats body messing with its own hormon-system)
- flea killers - it's an urban legend that they are harmless. Worst types are which have permethrin in them (check active ingredient when you buy flea killers as permetrine poisoning is one of the leading death cause of cats) but eg Advocate spot-on can cause abortion - with common sense: if stuff can cause abortion then it is not harmless...Some of them can cause bloody stool, the other can couse hair-loss if cat is sensitive. During 30+ years it happened just twice we had to use flea-killers, first we used Frontline, second time we used Advocate and Stronghold. We never use them as "prevention" but when problem stands or danger is real (for example: you just have heard that your neigbourh's dog got fleas). If you use flea killers in the house never use it on the place where your cat likes to sleep (they lick it from their fur) but rather clean it or if you can't clean threw it out.
- 'oil-therapy' - forget about it please, cats are diffenet (very different and many plants and plant' product are poisonous to them) - but with common sense: Cats decide that what is food (edible) and what is not food based on smells. If the whole living area smells like lavender how could they smell meat?
If you keep your cat on a commercial diet its fur very easely goes knotted and you have to groom on daily basis. (Unless food is full with grease / oils which makes fur shiny but it is a 'cheating' of manufacturers because fur' conditon does not reflect the true health-condition of cat.
On the other hand, if you keep your cat on a natural diet (raw meat) you do not have to groom very often apart from 2 periods in a year when they change their fur (we groom them once in a week or so). You should groom kitten regulary to make it familiar with the process. An interesting details for people with cat-allergy: cats who are kept on natural diet do not tend to cause / trigger allergic reactions. (Scientific explanation that not the fur itself causes the allergy but cat's salvia on fur - healthy cats' salvia do not tend to trigger allergies). Another benefit of this diet that fur is just gorgeous, shiny, soft and silky.
Beside this persians need hairball paste or "cat-grass" otherwise they will chew plants all around, poisonuos ones or not. Normal grass is ok to chew. You can even plant "cat-grass" into a pot inside your house. If you feed whole-prey type diet, it will solve the problem as feathers of a small bird or skin of a mouse works for them as fiber works for us.
EYE CLEANING: Persians have shorter nose, was a bad fashion to breed persians with very short nose, it's unhealthy, old types had long noses. These type of cats often have shorter tear-channels and because of it some of them tend to produce a lot of discharge / gums in the corner of their eyes. You have to clean the eyes' corners to remove soft discharge with a luke-warm, wet cotton piece otherwise area will be baldish and irriated skin is painful to the cat. And just so ugly.
LITTER AND LITTER TRAINING:
We mostly use silicon types litters (chrystals) without extra "parfum" in it (avoid parfumed ones). "Litter-tranined": In reality parents / older cats teach kittens to use the litter and they learn it very quickly, once it was learnt they won't forget it. In your home put the litter-tray in a 'sheltered' area or in a corner where kitten feels safe. When kitten arrives show the litter like put the kitten on it, gently grab its front paws and do some scratching movement on litter. If a 'litter-trained' kitten / cat starts not to use the litter (rare but can happen), it is a kind of 'revenge' reaction, it means that kitten / cat is upset and wants you to know about it.
For people who regulary spent too much time away from home we kindly advise to adopt two kittens, as in this case they can entertain each other.
If kitten did not use the tray put its nose very close to the dirt it made, talk to it on a voice / manner which reflects that you are sad, disappointed, upset and after this put it to the litter to show the right place again. Usually this is enough but consider the possibity that kitten is right and you really 'did' something upsetting like neglecting it.
INSIDE OR OUTSIDE?:
Motto: Even prisoners allowed to go out for some fresh air and sunshine. If you have a garden or balcony and it can be secured eg with net on the top of the fence or on balcony's open area let it go outside. They enjoy it and they need fresh air for good health as much as our children or us. We secured our garden on a very easy way, we bought cat-net, cut it for 40 cms wide, long pieces and mantled it to the top of the fence in a way where fence and the net close a 90 degrees' angle, it is almost impossible to climb and impossible to stand on it. Not very attractive but efficient. We also have this kind of net on windows to pervent them to escape to direction of road. There is an option for people who does not have gardens or balconies - a harmness and walking or carrying the cat - just like dog' owners do it. It requiers some training from the beginning (kitten-age)
NEUTERING: Our kittens never leave us neutered. It is the owner's decision in a later time as - according to our best of knowledge - kittens need their hormons to develop properly. Because of it we suggest neutering for the first sign of getting matured which is individualy different but it is around 7 months - 1 year old age. Early neutering is cruel, in old times little boys were neuted for church' choirs to maintain their high / angelic voice - it's affect the body's development.
Health, VACCINATIONS, medicines: Motto: 'THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS SAFE VACCINE'. As true knowledge about this subject is VITAL if you are uncertain please take time to read this part even if it is long. We are contionously researching this area and also have our very own experiences - in this way we can save you enormous time of research but if wish to research please go and watch documentaries like 'Truth about vaccines' or 'Truth about pet cancer' (Google will help). What is true for humans, true for cats, too.
Vaccines are a big part of veterinary business while more and more vets admit that they did not have proper education about side effects (you'll find their confessions under Show More button.) On the other hand I might lost many of our possible clients insisting on not to vaccinate our kittens but I want to protect them. So I kindly ask you if you wish to vaccinate the kitten even after reading this part - just don't turn to us - thank you.
There is no such thing as safe vaccine because viruses need a 'soil' to breed during manufacturing process. This soil is can be anything from monkey-kidney cells, aborted fetus, placenta and cancer' cells (foreign DNAs). Problem is that manufacturers unable to fully clean vaccines from these foreign cells - the "soil". Plus most of them have mercury, formaldehyde and aluminium in it, sometimes even dirt like very tiny glass particles (happened). Of course that immune system very likely will start a war against these foreign cells - in our opinion excessive vaccination is the cause that autism, autoimmune diseases, allergies and never-seen-new illnesses are sky-rocketing. In the case of cats it is proven that cat-flu vaccine caused a kind of kidney disease pandemic in older cats like cats immun systems ruined their very own kidneys due to foreign DNA in vaccines. Also part of the problem that most of owners could not make the connection between a vaccine administered earlier and a disease which become visible just months or even years after vaccination. What you can expect if things doesn't go smoothly:
1. Sort therm side effects - you'll notice it 'at once' (but will be unable to change it back and you can easily lost your pet while watching its suffering), it is not as rare as usually was told to us. In this case don't hope that vets can help - they can't - we've experienced - from this point your pet's life depends on your common sense and its very own immune system. (pls see long version under 'Show More' button below - eg Little Queen's case and our 2014' summer kittens' case)
2. Long time side effects - you'll probably won't make the connection between a vaccination which happened weeks-months-years earlier and the developed autoimmune disease, you'll just pay a fortune while probably fail to keep alive your pet for a long time without suffering. (In US they tend to give vaccines into the cat's tail, as it can be removed via surgery if cat develops cancer on the place where vaccine was given which happens quite often.)
3. OK, but if I do not vaccinate what about infections?
The sentence we were trained is: 'Benefits outweight the risk.' - It is up to us to decide that it is true or not but we should decide just if we have enough TRUE information about the subject.
I can't promise you that your well kept (proper, healthy diet) cat never can catche anything (and would be very silly to promise it if a cat is poorly kept) but I can share my own experience: I've been living with cats from 35 years now, has kittens regularly from 13 years or so (deal with more cats on daily basis).
- Well kept / properly kept healthy cats do not tend to catch anything or they simply easily cope with it. I've never seen a single cat-flu case during this long time of period except once in 2014, due to a cat-flu live virus vaccine, a 'wrong batch' which infected our kittens (as were injected directly into them) and caused them unbereable suffering and life-threatening condition (deatils below). Cat-flu is a kitten illness, well kept, healthy adult cats don't tend to catch it.)
- I've never seen a single FIV / FelV / FIP / Panleukopenia / Rabbies case during this long time wether a cat of mine was vaccinated or not (from 2014 we do not vaccinate and I have several non-vaccinated cats - they are very healthy - also people who bought kittens of us unvaccinated and did not vaccinate later, did not gave feedback to us about a single case of any of these serious infections and this group is big enough).
- On the other hand, I've experienced that vaccinas can start an epidemic and can cause autoimmun diseases (mild one or not).
- Many of illnesses does not have vaccine against it. Which have... their effectiveness are highly controversial, questionable. (There are not so many researches about cats but many can found with dogs or humans, if you dig, you'll find that polio / chicken pox (etc, many of them) vaccines started infections or you can read that dogs' pavro is man-made, it appeared when massive vaccinations started, before that it was unknown (details on C. Driscoll' website: Canin Health Concern). And I am pretty sure that cats Polykidney disease (PKD) is a kind of accidentaly man-made, too and became inheritable years ago. Cysts are usually autoimmun diseases.
- No matter it was tested on humans, dogs or cats, real-life tests' results showed: always the unvaccinated population is the healthiest if otherwise properly was feed - where clean water and good food was available.
Here comes my / our responsibility: You must know, if we carry on vaccinating our cats like this (especially breeders) soon we won't have any healthy animal around because when a vaccine start and autoimmune disease it becomes inheritable due to injured DNA and more autoimmune diseases means more injured DNAs: cats will be sicker and sicker with every generation.
- Natural Immunity: It looks nature has its own way to help our pets to develop immunity, I've just read a very interesting practice like how dog owners 'trained' their dogs to gain immunity against dog distemper - it's an example - how things work or should work without vaccines. They new about an infected racoon colony, members used the nearby lake to drink. Owners took their puppies to that lake every day for just minutes. Tests proved that they developed antibodies against the illness without being sick or being vaccinated. When later racoons disappeared they changed the method like bringing puppies to a park where many dog owners took their dogs to walk. Again, every day but just for minutes. Result was the same. Earlier I read that many cats (non-vaccinated cats) had antibodies agains cat leukemia which means, they met the virus, didn't went sick (owners didn't noticed anything), and their immune-system did the job and they became really protected - while leukemia's shot not just extremly dangerous but promises just around 63% protection which is too close to 50-50 (yes or no).
- Finally: True protection is the good immune-system: quality, proper healthy food and water, healthy and happy life to boost it. But please carry on reading if you think, many proof, access of documentation, interesting cases including our very owns are shared under 'Show More' button.
We were a kind of vaccina 'believers', too, did not think much about it, we felt a kind of 'secured' via them. It started to change 7-9 years ago with these cases:
1. Proof of lobby instead of real health protection: we understood that the very same rabbies' vaccine valid / working for 1 year in Hungary and 3 years here in UK (Novibac: Rabbies). What is the truth? How many years? Works at all? What about its side effects if it overdosed? What's the point to overdose? 2. Little Queen died: around 8 years ago one of our previous kitten suddenly had died at the age of 3 right after having her regular yearly shot. She was known as a healthy cat, was regurlary vet' checked. This time she got a cat-flu leukemia combinate vaccine, went sick right after vaccine basically with sypmtomes of an agressive leukemia and died within a week. After this our reliable family vet told us, that she had got two similar cases in her practice after leukemia's shot. This was the start of my researches and scepticism. Around that time I even changed a couple of emails with two ladies, experts of the topic for some extra knowledge. (Catherine O'Driscoll who has the Canin Health Concern web site and tries to protect dogs and Dr. Patricia Jordan, a rather famous 'natural-way' vet living in US). Dr Jordan was the one who wrote me that it takes 4 generation of cats to completely get rid of vaccine's caused damage (like autoimmune diseases which became inherited due to injured DNA of the cat's parents, ancestors.)
In a case of a vaccine we usually accept vet's advice. Years ago I did, too, however I rememered to my childhood and that we got just 1-2 vaccinas and was promised a life-time protection in exchange, according to this I never vaccinated our cats on a yearly basis. But even then it was controversial. One vet suggested to vaccinate the kitten at the age of 6-8 weeks, another told us that it was pointless as there was no developed immune-system meaning vaccines couldn't work (while can cause side effects for nothing) and shoud start it just in the age of 3-6 months closer to 6. Please LET ME SHOW vets' true knowledge about this topic: CHC - ABOUT VACCINATION VETS EXPLAINES THAT HOW THEY DID NOT GET APPROPRIATE KNOWLEDGE OF LONG THEM SIDE EFFECT OF VACCINAS:Vets on Vaccines
- INADEQUATE EDUCATION There are more and more studies on internet which prove that our "suspicion" in connection of vaccines generated diseases were true, inc. many legends about persians' inherited diseases... the truth behind this in my opinion is persians were a kind of favorite type cats, expensive ones, because of it they were dragged to vets more often, as vaccinas tend to cause autoimmune diseases when a cat develops one she can pass it to her kittens - disease becomes inherited:
Vaccines can save lives BUT are not safe....
- EXAMPLE 1 - KIDNEYS RUINED DUE TO VACCINA:"...FVRCP (cat-flu vaccine): should be given to every cat, but only once or twice. ..... (in my opinion: not even once).
This vaccine has a very high protection rate against panleukopenia approaching 100%, however recently a major problem has emerged with the vaccine. The vaccine virus is made by growing virus on feline kidney cells. The problem with this is that small amounts of kidney cells get in the vaccine and can cause not just an immune response to the vaccine but also to the catís own kidneys. In other words it can cause the catís immune system to fight against and destroy itís own kidneys. Many of us believe that the overuse of this vaccine has created the epidemic of kidney disease that we see in cats eight year of age and older. And recent studies have shown that cats do develop antibodies against their kidney cells."
please click for the source - EXAMPLE 2 - HEART RUINED DUE TO VACCINA: Connection between HCM (heart disease of persians) and vaccinas: "...I also believe that this explains the occurrence of cardiomyopathy in cats. Perhaps the heart muscle association of the feline parvovirus (panleukopenia virus) was not seen in natural infections, but vaccination brought it to the surface. Cardiomyopathy is an autoimmune disease, and vaccines are major causes of autoimmune disease. In my opinion, these connections are too close to be coincidence alone."
- EXAMPLE 3 - LIVER AND OTHER ORGANS RUINED DUE TO VACCINA: "Christopher Day, Honorary Secretary of the British Homoeopathic Veterinary Association, told us that, in his experience, where the start date of a dog's illness is known, a high percentage (around 80%) begin within three months of vaccination.
Canine Health Concern tested this observation and has analyzed the histories of over 3,800 dogs post vaccination. ...Other diseases that were highly represented within three months post vaccination included cancer (35.1%) , chorea (81%), encephalitis (78.6%), heart conditions (39.2%), kidney damage (53.7%), liver damage/failure (61.5%), paralysis of the rear end (69.2%), and pancreas problems (54.2%). " For full article please visit: http://www.canine-health-concern.org.uk/caninevaccinesurvey.html
- EXAMPLE 4 - Link Between Vaccines and Autoimmune Hemolytic Anemia (deadly in 80% of cases) - According to the traditional veterinary community no "statistically significant association" has been proven between vaccines and AIHA, and they are only willing to consider a link if the onset of the disease occurs within four weeks of a vaccination.
Now, those of us in the holistic veterinary community absolutely believe there is a direct and prevalent link between vaccines and autoimmune hemolytic anemia.
As a holistic vet working in a large traditional vaccine clinic early in my career, I saw a lot of cases of AIHA Ė one or two a month. However, for the last 11 years since I've been in private practice, I've not seen a single case in my own patients. I believe this is because in my own practice, we titer rather than automatically give traditional adjuvanted vaccines.
The cases of AIHA I see now are referred from traditional vet practices that are probably continuing to over-vaccinate. source: http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2012/07/30/vaccine-causes-autoimmune-hemolytic-anemia.aspx
- EXAMPLE 5 - "Disorders caused by vaccine side effects in dogs and cats
Transient or chronic seizure disorders may also develop in sensitive pets that have had vaccines. Immune suppression that may last for up to seven days can also occur after vaccination. Some of the chronic disorders suspected of being the result of overvaccination include lupus, pemphigus, rheumatoid arthritis, and autoimmune platelet and red blood cell disorders. Chronic skin and ear allergies, as well as food allergies and inflammatory bowel disease may also be triggered by vaccine reactions. The immune response of dogs with preexisting inhalant allergies (atopy) to pollens has shown to be augmented by vaccination. The autoimmune diseases Hyperthyroidism (cats) and hypothyroidism (dogs) have often demonstrated in humans to be initiated by vaccinations, and this is also suspected in dogs and cats. In susceptible cats, refractory injection site fibrosarcomas (aggressive, malignant cancers) may appear months to years after receiving a feline leukemia or rabies vaccination" source: http://www.1800petmeds.com/education/symptoms-vaccine-side-effects-dog-cat-45.htm
OUR VERY FIRST CASE EXPERIENCE aka. History of our vaccination' habit: UNTIL the end of 2010 our kittens always had the first core vaccines including vaccine agains leukemia, but after this time we completely excluded leukemia's vaccine and never suggested the habit of yearly boosters on vaccines.
2014 summer: 6 of our previous kittens went ill due to bad side effect and infection caused by vaccine, all of them roughly in the same time, 2 days after vaccination. But first side effects like great pain reached them right after the vaccination and was so bad that they cried because of pain, kept an ear or leg paralised, cried out for the tiniest touch on their body and we had to rush back to the clinic at once. And they could tell nothing, could do nothing. They reported the case to the manufacturer based on our report. Almost 3 years passed and we NEVER GOT ANY ANSWER from manufacturer - this is what you can expect in similar case. All of our kittens were 'lucky' as previously they were in a top health condition and it helped to cope with this life-threatening infection, for a week we saw them suffer, had to force-feed them not to lose strenght and able to fight against infection while their mouths were full with shores and ulcers and eating were terribly painful to them. They all recovered fully around a week time and without having secondary bacterial infections like eg.pneumonia - but you must know, if something like this happens, cats and kittens depenends on their own body and your knowledge about appropriate caring as vet won't be able to help on side-effect casued illnesses as we well understood. WE ARE SORRY, WE DO NOT TAKE THIS RISK AGAIN THAT UNTESDED, DANGEROUS VACCINES CAN MAKE HEALTHY KITTENS SICK AND MAY RISK THEIR LIVES.
Good part: WE LEARNT A LOT FORM THIS CASE:
1. Vaccinas can start epidemics: we had 7 similar aged kittens kept in our big living room (shared bowls), when we went for vaccinas they ran out and just 4 were vaccinated. Around after 1-2 days their salvia started to flow like hell, we didn't know / recognise it at once. They infected two other (non-vaccinated) kittens living /drinking /eating with them, and last one showed no sing of illness at all. During this time we had two younger litters upstairs and many adults crossing the living room, ocasionaly even drinking from that water bowl - no one else caught it, not even one. Previously we lived in fear due to vets that cat-flu (corona virus infection) is so very easely infect and it is air-born - we learnt that airborne or not but not so easily causes infection in adults or in other kittens who are not in the same room on shared bowls. This was the point when I asked myself that in how many cases were cat-flu made up like the 'Great Fear' generated with purpose via vets, mainstream media for make people to run and accept vaccines without even thinking twice about it?
Vaccine was: Feligen RCP batch no: 4JS5 END 10/15, it was a live-virus vaccina. In environment cats can meet just a small amount of viruses (to be able to cause illness depends on the amount of viruses what could enter into the body) and cats have some natural protection like protection of skin, etc, on the other hand during a vaccination they do not have the usual protection as vaccinas are injected right into their body. Good point was that we understood from this case that our kittens can cope almost with everything, so please follow the diet and lifestyle we suggest as it is their only real protection.
In the same time we heard about similar cases from Netherlands but other manufacturers' vaccines. One of the breeder lady I knew wrote to me that her cats went sick due to vaccination with cat-flu and she also mentioned a case (another breeders') where she lost all of her kittens due to vaccination. Also my hungarian vet has informed us that recently she experienced increasing sarcoma (cancer) cases on the place where vaccines were given and she suspected that it was adjuvants caused side-effect (change of adjuvants in vaccines).
OUR OTHER OWN EXPREINCES:
1. During these years we never lost an unvaccinated cat due to autoimmun disease
2. We lost two realtively young and previously very healthy cats in 30+ years due to autoimmune diseases (both were vaccinated, both illnesses were very likely vaccine related as similar documented cases were found on internet).
We definitely try to avoid too much chemicals / drugs and we do not bath our cats or just very rarely. If an accident happens like softer poo which made some dirt on the bottom (because of long fur it can happen) we wash just the bottom but not the whole cat. If you need to wash the whole cat, room temperature should be about 28 Celsius to avoid get cold. But as far as I know it is better not to take them bath, they are not dirty (they are able to perfectly clean theirselves and in this way you do not have to use chemicals) and not smell at all just rarely in which case is the solution is that take the cat outside and after a short time fur will smell like freshly washed and sun-dried linen, love it to bits. :-) Besieds as they have long, thick fur, it dries very slowly or you have to use hair-dryer and they hate it.